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Action: h01ger blinzelt
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07:30 Mrfaitorkel: I would be perfect if I get the patch for the documentation for #342467: fai: nfsroot hooks until today. I like to release FAI 3.2.1 in the afternoon
07:31 h01gerMrfai, i'll look at the config-svn patch in an hour...
07:33 Mrfaih01ger: Great. Thank you very much!
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08:09 torkelMrfai: I'm not sure I can manage to do it today, but I will try
08:09 torkelunless I can pursade zqad to do it... :-)
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08:29 torkelMrfai: by the way, FAI_HOOK_DIR should probably be replaced with FAI_NFSHOOK_DIR, as it is only meant for make-fai-nfsroot
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08:47 h01gerMrfai, i'm also absolutly in favor of FAI_NFSHOOK_DIR - otherwise it really gets confusing. i was already thinking if i could modify the nfsroot class-based....
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08:56 h01gerMT, congrats! (-newmaint)
08:57 MTit's making progress...
08:57 MT- but how did you notice?
08:57 MT:-)
08:57 h01gerMT, you'll be a DD before lenny :)
08:58 h01gerMT, i'm subscribed to debian-newmaint@l.d.o
09:03 MTah :-)
09:08 h01gerMrfai, i'm testing now "svn" (442021) and "svn+ssh with username" (415875) - i'm fairly sure that my version works, as i've been using this in my branch.
09:08 h01gerthe side effect will be that i switch my installations to 3.2.1 :)
09:14 h01gerMrfai, ok. what is in trunk doesnt work:
09:14 h01ger # explaination: svn co -username foo svn+ssh://bar doesnt work as svn co svn+ssh://foo@bar
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Action: h01ger wonders if svn+http(s) works (or rather: ever worked) with a username
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09:33 h01gerMrfai, fai-client should really recommend cfengine2
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10:03 h01gerMrfai, fai-client should also suggest subversion and git-core
10:05 MrfaiWhat about FAI_NFSROOT_HOOK, without the DIR in the variable name?
10:05 h01gerfine
10:06 Mrfaior even with the FAI_
10:06 h01gerMrfai, i'm commiting now my version of fai-config-dir-svn to trunk?!
10:07 h01gerMrfai, what do you think about the suggest/recommends to fai-client (cfengine2 (recommends), subversion+git-core (suggest))?
Action: h01ger tested fai-config-dir-svn with svn (without username) and svn+ssh (with username)
10:08 h01gerbut i think svn+http(s) with username is still broken (but - by looking at the code - i also think it never worked)
10:09 Mrfaih01ger: yep please commit get-config-dir-svn to trunk
10:10 h01gerok
10:10 torkelwithout DIR some people may think that it is a file, not a directory. Dropping FAI_ I'm fine with too
10:11 Mrfaicfengine2 was remove from recommends, because somebody had problems when using an own version of cfengine. And since the simple examples are not included in fai-client I remove cfengine2 from depends or recommends. I think we should discuss thos thing on the FAI workshop. I do not like to change such kind of think in a last minute fashion.
10:12 torkelshould the directory it points to be renamed to nfsroot-hooks? (i.e dropping make-fai-)
10:12 MrfaiNFSROOT_HOOKS? Then everybody know, that ist must be a directory
10:12 h01gercommited
10:12 torkelsure
10:12 Mrfaitorkel: yep, good idea
Action: Mrfai suggests: #NFSROOT_HOOKS=/etc/fai/nfsroot-hooks/
10:13 h01gerMrfai, recommends is defined as "installed in all but unusual situations". i think that perfectly fits cfengine2.
Action: h01ger thinks #NFSROOT_HOOKS=/etc/fai/nfsroot-hooks/ is good
Action: h01ger will open a wishlist bug about those recommends and suggests, so we dont forget
10:14 Mrfaih01ger: lets discuss the recommends, suggest thigs (there are more than cfengine2) at the workshop
10:14 Mrfaiok
10:14 Mrfaih01ger: maybe ther's already a bug for some kind of recommdns, suggest. I not sure
Action: h01ger checks
10:18 h01gerno bug exists
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11:01 torkelMrfai: short, full of grammatical and spelling errors, but at least something ->
11:08 kuggis there anyone here whom is not from germany or sweden?
11:11 mikapdoes austria count? :)
11:12 mikap# dpkg -L fai-client fai-server | xargs grep 'task_instsoft'
11:12 mikap/usr/lib/fai/subroutines-linux:task_instsoft() {
11:12 mikap /usr/lib/fai/subroutines-linux:task_instsoft() {
11:12 mikap-> where is task_instsoft used?!
11:14 torkelmikap: use grep -e "task.instsoft" instead
11:16 mikaptorkel: huh? why that? and it doesn't change the output ;)
11:17 mikaphm, there seems to be the 'fai $action' why I can't find it with grep....
11:17 mikapfai dirinstall exits with 0 even though there's a problem with execution (not a FAI problem though)
11:17 torkelmikap: because the call looks like 'task instsoft'
11:18 mikaptorkel: ahhhh, damned, I missed your '.' - thanks! :)
11:26 Mrfaitorkel: thank for the patches. Included with minor change.
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Action: Mrfai just uploded FAI 3.2.1
12:07 Mrfainow also available through eb etch koeln
12:08 h01gercheers!
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12:42 h01gerlazyb0y, das faiwiki schickt mir kein neues passwort, ergo kann ich mich nicht einloggen, ergo nicht meine teilnahme beim linuxhotelworkshop eintragen. kannst du das bitte fuer mich machen?
12:43 h01gergrumpf. ich sollte auch den softupdate-git branch im wiki loeschen...
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12:49 stockholmwas ist neu in 3.2.1?
12:51 h01gerviele verbesserungen im detail zu 3.2
12:51 h01gergit support :)
12:51 h01gerund siehe changelog (und NEWS.Debian, sofern da was steht)
12:52 Mrfaistockholm: siehe changelog. Mein faforit: faimond-gui
12:52 Mrfaiupps. favorit meinte ich
12:53 stockholmja, das
Action: h01ger findet faimond-gui auch sehr hypsch, so als proof of concept. richtig was hermachen tut das ding IMO noch nicht. (hermachen as in sinnvoll benutzen)
12:53 h01geraber 1000^w100mal besser als der alte faimond ;)
12:53 Mrfaih01ger: installiere du mal zwei dutzend Rechner auf einen Schlag.
12:55 h01gerMrfai, nicht alleine. aber sonst..
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13:06 sheldonhhow do i get fai-setup to use my apt-proxy for the upgrading step? (i have it working for the initial chroot creation, just not the upgrade)
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13:09 Mrfai/etc/fai/apt/sources.list
13:11 h01gerlazyb0y, i got the mail now. my 7th login attempt worked. now i logged in, try to edit and get: "You must confirm your e-mail address before editing pages. Please set and validate your e-mail address through your user preferences."
Action: h01ger takes a deep breath from his crack pipe
13:12 h01ger(to that very email address the password was sent...)
13:13 h01gernow i can wait again for that confirmation email... *lalala*
13:13 oz_fai-wiki?
13:13 h01gerja
Action: oz_ still votes for integration of Documentation in fai-wiki
13:15 oz_the script is still working
13:19 h01geroz_, which script?
13:20 h01geroz_, in debian-edu we write the doc in a wiki, then export it as docbook, create po files from there, translate it with po files (and tools), and create docbook again, which we then convert into html, pdf, $younameit. all scripted of course :)
Action: h01ger wants to convice Mrfai to use this for fai at the dev-workshop in the linuxhotel
Action: Mrfai votes against using a wiki for writing documentation
13:21 h01gerhehe :)
13:21 h01gerja, the mediawiki commit mails are not so good...
13:22 h01germoinmoin produces nicer ones, ime
13:23 mikapMrfai: use asciidoc or ikiwiki
13:25 Mrfaimikap: yes, my plan is to look at asciidoc
13:26 mikapMrfai: if you need example files ->
13:27 mikapMrfai: we have a new toolchain which provides all the asciidoc documentation written by grml-devs in one single directory =>
13:27 mikapoutput html, manpage and PDF without any problems OOTB by asciidoc
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13:30 Mrfaimikap: too early for details. Let's discuss this on the developers workshop.
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13:31 h01germikap, can you translate asciidoc files? best with po files..
13:31 h01gerMrfai, you can edit mediawiki with emacs/joe/vi/kate via the mediawiki-filesystem...
13:32 mikapMrfai: ok, where just hints if you need some for starting
13:33 mikaph01ger: I don't think so, but translation is a matter of the target audience
Action: h01ger sighs
13:34 h01gerthe fai target audience wants translations...
13:35 mikapyou think so? I don't think so :)
13:35 h01geror how do you explain the guide was translated in 4 languages? because the admins have nothing to thanks to fai
Action: h01ger sighs
13:35 mikapI don't know, sorry ;)
13:35 mikapI just said that "translation is a matter of the target audience"
13:35 h01gerdont worry, no need to be sorry for your opinion :)
13:36 mikapsysadmins that can't handle english aren't sysadmins IMHO (no serious, hardcore documentation is available in anything else than english in the OS-world)
13:37 mikapstuff like "how to start; technical details;..." matter
13:37 mikap'cause the usual translation is just out of date and therefore useless in most cases (again: IMHO ;))
13:37 h01germikap, IMHO you have no clue about the world (of sysadmins ;) there are plenty of sysadmins who dont speak english well (or at all). its just not common in germany or sweden, but in many many countries sysadmins dont speak english
13:38 h01gerheck. even in germany
13:38 mikaph01ger: might be so, *I* never met a real sysadmin who can't deal with english
13:38 h01gerdebian-edu has lots of teachers as sysadmins that dont speak english. some cannot even read english.
13:38 h01gers/teachers/german teachers/
13:39 Mrfailet's discuss this topic at the developers workshop
13:39 mikapoh, that's ok and that's a different point of view then :) for me such a person isn't a real sysadmin ;)
13:39 h01germikap, have you ever been to brazil, china, russia?
13:39 mikaph01ger: no, but talked to people from there
13:39 Mrfaimikap: a lot of 'not real sysadmin' like to use FAI. I was also wondering when I heard this for the first time
13:40 mikapMrfai: same problem at grml ;) but someone who can't read the mdadm manpage won't be happy as a sysadmin at all
13:40 h01ger.oO( warum ist dieser kanal wohl zweisprachig? wir koennten auch deutsch hier verbieten, da alle super english koennen ;)
13:40 mikapMrfai: if I make it easier for beginners I reach the wrong users
13:40 mikaph01ger: keine ahnung ;)
13:41 h01germikap, translate the mdadm manpage? (and all kernel messages too...)
13:41 mikaph01ger: see what I mean?
13:41 h01gernoe
13:41 mikapmal auf deutsch ;) man holt sich damit falsche leute in die eigene zielgruppe
13:42 h01geryou can perfetcly use fai without knowing mdadm
13:42 mikapich hab eine unzahl von leuten die grml2hd verwenden weil es so einfach zu bedienen ist; aber die können Debian/unstable nicht handhaben
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13:42 h01germikap, you're out. nur falsche leute sprechen deutsch. und ich bin auch out, lass das thema wann anders fortsetzen ;)
13:43 mikaph01ger: k :)
13:43 h01gerfain :)
13:44 mikap*ggg*
14:03 lazyb0yh01ger: geht's jetzt? das mit der email confirmation hatte ich ja geschrieben im wiki update announcement! das ist dazu da, dass wir weder spam haben noch jeden neuen editor manuell eintragen muessen
14:03 h01gerja
14:04 h01ger(und ich bin alter user)
14:04 lazyb0yja, das liess sich nicht vermeiden - auch vorhanden euser muessen ihre email adresse einmal confirmen
14:09 sheldonhMrfai: thanks.  and for installed hosts, i'd have to give the chroot a bogus sources.list that references the apt-proxy, and then add a post-install hook to overwrite it with a real one, yes?
14:17 Mrfaiyep
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Action: h01ger considers filing a wishlist bug to drop the last dot in "ERRORS found in log files. See /var/log/fai/current/error.log." - that would make copy'n'paste soo much easier ;)
14:48 Mrfaithat a lot work for just dropping a dot.
14:48 h01geryeah. "considers" was a bit strong already
14:49 h01gerbut i'd be happy if you remove it :)
14:49 h01ger(and will survive if you dont)
14:58 lazyb0ygood idea to remove this dot!
14:58 lazyb0ythat reminds mw of filing a wishlist bug for making the color banner configurable to avaoiud having to touch .nocolorlogo after each make-fai-nfsroot
14:59 lazyb0yI don't think the color logo brings really a lot on terms of merketing, but makes debugging a hassle all the time
15:01 Mrfailazyb0y: The FAI Enterprise Edition will have no logo ;-)
15:02 lazyb0yit should be exactly the other way around... enterprises need to pay even more if they want the logo removed - open source developers and users have no money, anyway - they are just annoyed and will attack your servers :)
15:03 lazyb0yand DOS the faiwiki and things like that, haha
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15:23 baldyjiji
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15:30 h01gerlazyb0y, at least we can now use a hook to touch that file (to get rid of the logo)
Action: h01ger would prefer if the logo would be there on default, but without colors. and color logo could be an option. the ANSI codes are the problem...
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15:36 lazyb0yfor me, not the color is the problem, but the fact that it blocks the screen...
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15:36 lazyb0yat which point/which task cann the loggo be hooked away?
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15:45 h01gerlazyb0y, make-fai-nfsroot now has hooks..
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15:53 lazyb0ydidn't look at 3.2 since beta11 or so...
15:53 lazyb0yis nfsroot now "dirinstalled"?
15:53 lazyb0yas was planned for a while...
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16:04 h01gerlazyb0y, no
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16:05 lazyb0ybut it has hoockas and the package config file NFSROOT... enough foir a start :)
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16:11 h01gerdisabling the logo should probably be in the simple examples ;)
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18:56 torkelgetting rid of the color logo was one of the reasons I made the nfsroot hooks initially :-)
19:01 h01ger:)
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20:22 BarryAllenhi... is there some way to do an bootstrap of amd64 arch packages on a 32bits processor?
20:22 h01gerqemu
20:22 h01ger+hi BarryAllen
20:23 BarryAllenh01ger, hi
20:23 BarryAllenim trying a multi arch setup to fai...
20:23 BarryAllenso, i can doo the bootstrap on a virtual machine, and later.... copy the nfsroot ?
20:23 h01geryes
20:23 h01ger(though if you have real hw, you should probably bootstrap there :)
Action: h01ger goes away from keyboard...
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21:50 BarryAllenh01ger, are u there?
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--- Tue Sep 18 2007

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